Back to steven-hall.org
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Thoughts on adaptations / how would you adapt The Raw Shark Texts? Options
heartbreak
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:24:44 PM
Rank: Unspace Science Committee
Groups: Shoal , Unspace Science Committee

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 230
A long while ago there was a video posted to the House of Leaves forums of someone walking up stairs and the surfaces were all rendered to look like text. If I'm remembering it correctly. It was pretty well done, and even though I didn't think it would do much for a House of Leaves movie, the first thing I thought of when I saw it was that it would be excellent for some of the stuff in The Raw Shark Texts. I'll keep looking for the video, if I can find it I'll link it here.

Found it.


Shadow Girl
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:35:09 PM

Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 3/23/2009
Posts: 24
Location: Florida
I don't think that the movie would have to be EXACTLY like the book. Really, I expect differences. The only thing I think should absolutely, under no circumstances be changed is the shark of text.

And there it was, full of everything and overwhelming nothingness.
Leo went on, a false idea resting in a candy wrapper of societal perfection.

He had no idea what it meant to see, what it meant to know.

And there was no way for me to un-know. No way for me to un-see. No way I could ever shield myself in one of those brightly colored candy wrappers of pretend ignorance.

I think I wanted it that way, to be like Leo, but I knew that would never happen.

~A snippet of things to come.
heartbreak
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:37:05 PM
Rank: Unspace Science Committee
Groups: Shoal , Unspace Science Committee

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 230
Shadow Girl wrote:
The only thing I think should absolutely, under no circumstances be changed is the shark of text.


I agree.
MiaVRO
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:27:16 AM

Rank: Bede Shark
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 313
Location: Canada
I second that "agree"
Steven Hall
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:06:32 AM

Rank: Whale Shark
Groups: Shoal , Whale Shark

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 416
Location: UK
heartbreak wrote:
A long while ago there was a video posted to the House of Leaves forums of someone walking up stairs and the surfaces were all rendered to look like text. If I'm remembering it correctly. It was pretty well done, and even though I didn't think it would do much for a House of Leaves movie, the first thing I thought of when I saw it was that it would be excellent for some of the stuff in The Raw Shark Texts. I'll keep looking for the video, if I can find it I'll link it here.

Found it.




I've never seen that video before. That's a really nice effect, it reminds me a little of the one from the start of the Tilda Swinton film.

Do you guys think its vital that shark is made of text in the film then, even though the medium of the story has changed?

S
Conceptually yours...
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:01:08 AM

Rank: Luxophage
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 124
Location: Glossop Manchester
[/quote]Should it be Raw Shark Texts movie and book? Or Raw Shark Texts book with adapted movie?
(i'm sort of saying the same thing over, aren't i?)[/quote]

Just what I was trying to say a few posts back, kinda, will being too faithful spoil what could be a great film based on the book. Definatly a shark of text.

See in black and white, feel in slow motion....
heartbreak
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:56:12 AM
Rank: Unspace Science Committee
Groups: Shoal , Unspace Science Committee

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 230
Steven Hall wrote:


Do you guys think its vital that shark is made of text in the film then, even though the medium of the story has changed?

S


I think so. In a typical book reading the text is what generates the images, where the images in a movie are there already, but in Raw Sharks the text also forms images which I think is important. Although, I see where you are coming from, whereas in the book we get the sense that the shark is swimming through the text we hold in our hands. That's going to be tricky to convey to the screen. Perhaps, to take the north star sequence from the beginning as an example. Have Eric reading the text, then have the text he is reading slowly replace the surrounding room, like in the video, and have it start shifting as if it was becoming liquid, then maybe have it appear to be actual water. The same with other scenes, for example the Loop, maybe have the audio of the voices playing, but have the text of what they are saying actually visually form a loop between the different tape decks.
MiaVRO
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:25:11 PM

Rank: Bede Shark
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 313
Location: Canada
Steven Hall wrote:

Do you guys think its vital that shark is made of text in the film then, even though the medium of the story has changed?

S
I think this needs more consideration. Its not the shark that is made of words, but a shark made completely of concept. The word shark was relative to the book (via words), but can it be made relative to a movie via images or something of the sort? Should the shark then be relative to the media its conveyed in? For, that would make it even more conceptual, i think... Now i don't know if i would actually be pleased with that, but its just a thought.
heartbreak
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:45:16 PM
Rank: Unspace Science Committee
Groups: Shoal , Unspace Science Committee

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 230
Those were my thoughts as well Mia. Though a visual shark would be easily confused with a real shark oppossed to a conceptual one, thats why I was trying to drive towards a way to incorporate the conceptual aspect of it.
Conceptually yours...
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:29:05 PM

Rank: Luxophage
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 124
Location: Glossop Manchester
Love the house leaves video, made me think of a possible opening scene for TRST film...

Random words (names, places, phrase's) slowly dropping from behind the camera onto a white foreground, similar to the Tilda opening, (whilst music plays in background (and opening credits could fall down to join them) slowly forming a picture (like a reverse house of leaves video scene) that resolves into a bedroom, camera pans down and we see Eric on the floor, then snap to close up as he suddenly awakes.....?

See in black and white, feel in slow motion....
MiaVRO
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 3:19:54 PM

Rank: Bede Shark
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 313
Location: Canada
heartbreak wrote:
Those were my thoughts as well Mia. Though a visual shark would be easily confused with a real shark oppossed to a conceptual one, thats why I was trying to drive towards a way to incorporate the conceptual aspect of it.

Rather than having an actual "image" of a shark as the conceptual Ludovician, maybe it could be made up of numerous images, ie. home videos, movie clips and news broadcasts. That's a way to convey the conceptive-ness of the Ludovician (???)
heartbreak
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:52:39 PM
Rank: Unspace Science Committee
Groups: Shoal , Unspace Science Committee

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 230
I thought of something like that too, but I'm having a hard time picturing it looking right.
cgsheldon
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:59:26 PM
Rank: Luxophage
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 127
Location: Dubai, UAE
MiaVRO wrote:
Rather than having an actual "image" of a shark as the conceptual Ludovician, maybe it could be made up of numerous images, ie. home videos, movie clips and news broadcasts. That's a way to convey the conceptive-ness of the Ludovician (???)


Structurally, that makes sense; the first time Eric encounters the shark being in the static of his television. The effect of a shark made of static noise emerging from his TV could look very cool, similar to The Ring. Perhaps even have the shark "grow" over the course of the film, from pure static noise to black and white images and finally full color video.

Visually, though, I fear it would look too "busy", and if they're not careful, too colorful.

Also, the film would have to convey a sense of the evolution of these fish; the Shotai-Mu era fish were thoughts and words, whereas some of the modern day fish could be comprised of moving images.

The Luxophage, however, would need to be made of words, since it came out of the Encyclopedia.
MiaVRO
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:34:23 PM

Rank: Bede Shark
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 313
Location: Canada
Question:
Do you think the film, when made and seen through previews and trailers and teasers and so forth, would be seen as a horror? Because, when you add in giant human-consuming sharks, men with no eyeballs and the perpetual running from a possibly brutal death... it kind of screams "horror movie" to me, but i know thats NOT what it really is. DO you think people would possibly view it as something of the sort? Or that it will even be labeled that way? What kind of movie do you think it will be sold as?

p.s. in howevermany years this movie comes out, we'll be looking back at all of our speculation and laughing!! So much thought we're putting in to this!!
0bs01337
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:50:12 PM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 10
Location: Suburbia
Is anyone here familiar with film processing?

I don't know anything about it, but it seems like mistakes and problems from errors in processing (or mimicing effects) could convey the sense of the shark existing in the medium. Little scratches on the film collecting until they overwhelm.

Since I'm unfamiliar with the sort of thigns possible, I'm not sure if it lives up to the iconic text shark.
cgsheldon
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:58:20 PM
Rank: Luxophage
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 127
Location: Dubai, UAE
MiaVRO wrote:
Question:
Do you think the film, when made and seen through previews and trailers and teasers and so forth, would be seen as a horror?


Depends how they edit the trailers; the movie could also be presented as an action-thriller.

This is similar to the problem of how to describe the book itself; Steven has called it a "a postmodern slipstream romantic psychological sci-fi metaphysical action puzzle thriller horror mash-up".

One solution would be to have multiple trailers, each highlighting different aspects of the film - a "shark" trailer; a "love" trailer; an "unspace" trailer, etc.
Shadow Girl
Posted: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:19:24 PM

Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 3/23/2009
Posts: 24
Location: Florida
I don't know about that shark comprised of different images thing. It's an interesting idea, and hats-off to anyone that could do that without making the shark look cartoonish...but I think the word composition of the shark should remain. I don't know...personally I think I would be disappointed with that.

And there it was, full of everything and overwhelming nothingness.
Leo went on, a false idea resting in a candy wrapper of societal perfection.

He had no idea what it meant to see, what it meant to know.

And there was no way for me to un-know. No way for me to un-see. No way I could ever shield myself in one of those brightly colored candy wrappers of pretend ignorance.

I think I wanted it that way, to be like Leo, but I knew that would never happen.

~A snippet of things to come.
LongHairInThreeStages
Posted: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 10:46:26 PM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 4/8/2009
Posts: 1
Location: Italy
heartbreak wrote:
Those were my thoughts as well Mia. Though a visual shark would be easily confused with a real shark oppossed to a conceptual one, thats why I was trying to drive towards a way to incorporate the conceptual aspect of it.



The strange thing is that computer graphics IS somehow a process of concepts becoming "alive"... just think about this, a shark made of text -I mean, not the shark following Eric but the true shark of text created by our Steven: our dear novel- must somehow become a CG shark made of concepts (mostly numbers), and that shark will have to appear on the screen as something untrue, somehow truly conceptual. (headache)

I just hope they won't simply make a digital fish and cover it with an alphabetic pyjama -but that's what they will probably do. But, should they, who cares. Really, shark attacks are not the true point to this book. CG artists always find a way to make great action and thrill people, and that's enough to me. I'm so happy that the script is more focused on other, to me more important points.

A similarity about Watchmen and TRST, a similarity that will be very difficult to put on a movie, is -the details.
I mean, in the Watchmen comics you could look at the page again and again and again and always find little new objects that were moved, read the newspapers' frontpages, get important clues on the overall atmosphere or the story. Those comics were alive and sometimes it seemed all these details conspired to make you cry.
TRST book is quite similar in this, it should be read very slowly sometimes; it has hidden bonus stages that only some good players will know about, like in Super Mario. :-) And in the end you can collect all these clues along the way and find your truth (I found mine), while the movie can give you at best an open ending to think about when getting home in your car.

Given all this, well, I believe the movie will be good. Maybe great.
The best way they can do is to call our Steven on the phone and tell him: "Please, Mr. Hall, try and invent us something new that can add interesting new clues to the book readers, and vice-versa". Or, why not, doing it by theirselves. As they did with Slumdog Millionaire somehow.
One of the best adaptations ever is Kubrick's Shining, and it is a total reinvention of Stephen King's book. I love this way of adapting things.
A good TRST film should be like (and maybe contain something from) the "negative" chapters: different. A completion to the book. People should watch it after reading the book, and say: "Ahaaa!", then reread the book and find something new, then buy the dvd, stop on a still image, find another clue and get mad.

Steven, do you know what? While I was translating your book, I frequently thought it would make a GREAT videogame. (I still believe that one day there will be someone that will give videogames their primitive splendour, and actually invent great addictive interactive stories... TRST could be a very good start).
Giuseppe


arivindabraham
Posted: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:48:56 PM

Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 4/10/2009
Posts: 1
Location: London
I think the process of adaptation of the book to the screen will be fine as long as what everyone keeps focused on are the characters and their emotional arcs. There are very strong arcs for each character in the book and they will carry well over to film. What will be more tricky will be the presentation of the Ludovician itself in my opinion. CG would seem to be the most obvious route but the odd thing about CG is that is does not age well. As visual effects progress our eyes get used to the bigger and better and something from 2 years ago already looks unconvincing.

So the challenges may lie in the decision between visual effects or special effects and creating something that is unique & fresh and bringing that to the screen. Just like the ideas in the book were novel, the visuals have to scream interesting to really back up the emotional crux of the book.

On a slight tangent, what have been your thoughts on casting Steven?


www.arivindabraham.com
MiaVRO
Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:52:53 PM

Rank: Bede Shark
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 313
Location: Canada
LongHairInThreeStages wrote:
I just hope they won't simply make a digital fish and cover it with an alphabetic pyjama

Hahhha!
Love the way you said that.
But its exactly true!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Website Maintained by Paul A.T. Wilson (Xplosiv Media)
Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.8 (NET v2.0) - 3/29/2008
Copyright © 2003-2008 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
This page was generated in 2.207 seconds.