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LIKE R.L STINE EXPLAINING THE MATRIX? - LETS DISCUSS THE BOOK PLEASE! Options
chrisps
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:10:08 AM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 10/29/2009
Posts: 7
Location: london
Hi All,
I bought raw shark texts funnily enough from a waterstones in deansgate. the bloke selling it to me i think offered it to me purely for this reason...lol he probably looks at the H Author section everyday wishing to just crawl his way into unspace.

Now whilst i did enjoy the book, there are still many loose threads i feel i need answers to...(apologies if they were answered). whats happening steven, is there goin to be some sort of prequel to this book? I was explaining the premise to my girlfriend and she just shot down everything i said so fogive me again but i need clarification.

what happened to the other 9 eric sandersons? how come he awoke in a coma. did the ludovician get him?
how did eric sanderson get his hands on the dictaphones? as it seems near impossible to get the loop.
how and when did eric set up these standing orders for post to be sent to eric sanderson 2?
why is randle so anti eric receiving these letters?
what happened to the other cat?
what the hell was nobody? why did he melt? why was he dead?
if the mark richardson defence saved his life against nobody why didn't he just do it all the time?
how did scout know he smoked menthol cigarettes?
why were some of the diagrams relevants/worth looking at - not being rude but i studied some for ages!!
does anyone not find that the explanations to some of the theories...i.e. a conceptual shark...were a bit loose. furthermore that eric became very cool with everything happening around him (after swearing a bit at first)
what happened between fidourous and eric?
if the orpheous was conceptual and had a loop that was so strong...how come it listed? could they not get back somehow?
if they were protected in this house of books.... surely when the pretend orpheous became a tangible boat would they not still be within the confines of the book house? otherwise it means that fidourous could create anything if he conceptualised it. something like the matrix.

any answers are v welcome.

chrisps
Posted: Sunday, November 1, 2009 1:00:52 PM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 10/29/2009
Posts: 7
Location: london
how is nobody replying to this?

i think these are genuine questions/topics for debate and much more important to address than some ridiculous gimmicks such as the 'negatives all over the world' or how 'TRST is loosely similar to the word TRUST' - i mean, who cares!

what i care about, what i have scoured the net for - are people willing to question the obvious flaws in the story. It is not because i can't suspend disbelief or because i don't have an imagination but rather I (nor i bet all of you) didn't actually 100% understand what the jimeny cricket went on. why was ian needed? why was the pointless story of mycroft ward/japansese story included? what the daffy, donald and ed the DUCK happened with the strips of paper. whats that? - he had a dream and suddenly he's on a boat! oh right, clear as Daniel Day Lewis - why is nobody talking about these things?!!?!?!?!

30 people have looked at this thread, and none of them have commented. i looked at another question from an equally lost member of the forum and quel supris - no replies. What the hell is up with you guys! all the thousands of people on this forum are more willing to discuss utter BS and discuss intellectual theories that are not even pertinent to the novel....its ridiclodocus. its as if the purposefully confusing story was written in order to pertain to every type of philopshy, conceptual, je ne se quois!

reading this book was like reading R.L. Stine trying to explain the Matrix. discuss. please. por favour. sil vous plait.

All i am saying...is that i paid £7.99 for this flickbook gimmick thing...and i want answers. not discussion about what the chuck norris is on the postcard - if you care about the pictures wait for the film!
MiaVRO
Posted: Sunday, November 1, 2009 7:41:13 PM

Rank: Bede Shark
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 1/24/2009
Posts: 311
Location: Canada
Well, ouch. That was quite harsh.
Sorry sir, but I don't think you were very classy in the way you handled that.

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but for me, the intrigue of the book was the puzzle of finding these things out. You have questions. Man, we ALL have questions. Some of yours have been answered here. Some of them may not have answers. Period.

A lot of the intrigue of the way this book was put together comes from the unanswered or possibly unanswerable questions. If that doesn't tickle your fancy, maybe this sort of thing just isn't for you.

If what you want is everything laid out for you on a silver platter, that's your prerogative. But I, for one, believe that defeats the purpose. Look around. You'll find some of the answers you're looking for around here. I'm not going to be the one to hand out a cheat sheet.
chrisps
Posted: Monday, November 2, 2009 9:31:24 AM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 10/29/2009
Posts: 7
Location: london
miavro...thank you for replying!

i know i was being harsh/unclassy but i felt perhaps the only way to get debates going was to rattle a few cages.

i'm all for finding things out, researching etc. in my youth i would spend unreal amounts of time finding out more about books, films, video games. But where TRST differs is in that the story is riddled with inconsistencies and loose threads. The 'finding out element' you talk of draws parallell's to Lost, the matrix donnie darnko or even lord of the rings where there are a plethora of things to look up and read into and understand. The difference however is that these examples were well structured and to an extent explained (although in Lost's case it has been 4 years!) and more important televised! If say TRST had have come out as a film first with the same holes in structure it would have added to the intrigue as you are only spening an hour or an hour and half watching it. To have spent so many hours reading the book, looking forward to some very cool ideas/story and for it all to be unanswered is very frustrating. maybe it is just my opinion, but i don't think when one finishes a book it should leave them thinking WTF HAPPENED TO X, HOW DID Y AND WHY WAS Z!?

I am not slating the book as i think it was werthers original, moreover i am slating the fact nobody seems to shed light on any of the questions that really need answering.

are all the questions i listed above on this website? i don't think they are as this is steven's website and people won't want to appear rude and subsequently indulge themselves in some inane conversations about two headed turtles and other sheet. it is crazy how there is more discussion about the actual book on the customer reviews on amazon than on this 'forum.'

timlarsson
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 9:48:02 PM

Rank: Luxophage
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 5/7/2009
Posts: 123
Location: Sweden
what happened to the other 9 eric sandersons? how come he awoke in a coma. did the ludovician get him?
awoke in a coma? Probably the ludovician got him, yes.
how did eric sanderson get his hands on the dictaphones? as it seems near impossible to get the loop.
Since he has a past with fidourous, maybe he gave them to him?
how and when did eric set up these standing orders for post to be sent to eric sanderson 2?
maybe scout? maybe randle?
why is randle so anti eric receiving these letters?
it may have happened before?
what happened to the other cat?
Were there ever another cat? or is the other cat "the first Ian"?
what the hell was nobody? why did he melt? why was he dead?
this was well explained in the book.
if the mark richardson defence saved his life against nobody why didn't he just do it all the time?
Wasn't this discussed in the book? Being someone else would be tiresome, so to relax, just put up the dictaphone loop!
how did scout know he smoked menthol cigarettes?
maybe because scout knew the first sanderson? maybe because scout is someone else? Spoiler: (the second clio perhaps?)
why were some of the diagrams relevants/worth looking at - not being rude but i studied some for ages!!
because they were interesting / had something to do with the negatives?
does anyone not find that the explanations to some of the theories...i.e. a conceptual shark...were a bit loose. furthermore that eric became very cool with everything happening around him (after swearing a bit at first)
after experiencing what he does right away, i'd "accept" whats happening and try to make the best out of it.. he DID lose his mind.
what happened between fidourous and eric?
that is explained in the book.
if the orpheous was conceptual and had a loop that was so strong...how come it listed? could they not get back somehow?
the shark was stronger?
if they were protected in this house of books.... surely when the pretend orpheous became a tangible boat would they not still be within the confines of the book house? otherwise it means that fidourous could create anything if he conceptualised it. something like the matrix.
Did fidourous conceptualise it, or did sanderson?

why was ian needed?
Why leave the poor thing alone?
why was the pointless story of mycroft ward/japansese story included?
Yes, very pointless... mycroft ward just fucked scout and maybe "her" up, explaining nobody, and kinda has some things to do with the sharks. and that pointless japanese story did just explain how the conceptualising works, why the sharks do what they do etc.
what the daffy, donald and ed the DUCK happened with the strips of paper. whats that? - he had a dream and suddenly he's on a boat! oh right, clear as Daniel Day Lewis
Strips of paper representating water, conceptualise the water strips into water = making it water as in the pointless japanese story. and the dictaphone loop of "water" conceptualised: you guessed it - WATER! and the boat became a boat, and he got help to get up there.


Did you even read the book?
chrisps
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 11:03:39 PM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 10/29/2009
Posts: 7
Location: london
haha did i read the book?! obviously not with that coma line - what was i on!! lol still, a good question my dear tim a good question.

i guess some of your answers have silenced me. i re-read what i wrote and remembered some stuff. I know i;m coming across like an idiot with some of the questions asked, but please tim, you HAVE to at least want some of these questions resolved? the majority of your answers are to indefinite/vague for your own mind to surely buy them.

the thing is tim i remember fidorous saying to eric to bring the dictaphones along (aboard the orpheous) as they may come in useful. if TF gave eric the dictaphones, he spoke about them in a way as if he had not given them to him. furthermore, if he did give them why could there have not been a reference to it? it would have taken two lines. i.e. "hey eric, good to see you still have the dicatphones i gave you". besides this raises up more questions. if there were 10 other erics, surely there would be 10 other dictaphone loops sent to him each time in the post? OR if you're going to counter this with 'everytime he suffered a relapse someone went into his house and tidied it up and resent him the stuff' then my question would be who is this somebody? and dont be lazy and say scout or trey because i have read the book and that would not make sense!

if the shark is stronger as you say it is than the 5 computer conceptual loop, how come it couldn't get into the 4 teeny tiny dictaphone loop. this is a bogus theory tim! i would have believed it more had you have said 'the boat listed because eric didn't fully believe in the boat he was in" - but again that only raises more questions.

with regards to nobody... i don't see why, if i have missed something, you can;t just quickly explain it to me. i know he is dead. i know that the collective mycroft ward is keeping him alive using 'chemicals' and that he melted because he wasn't taking his pills or something... but still. i mean, if you are melting...take the pills earlier or meet at a time when you don't have to take the pills!! what did you make of it when he said that eric was also dead? - whats your theory on that?

trey doesn;t know about the other 10 erics hence why he very cleverly calls him eric sanderson 2nd. so he could not have set up the standing order of post.

the negatives thing is really pretentious. by SH saying some are online, some are in the book and some are out there its effectively trying to blend TRST's with the real world. a dangerous thing to do as i don't want a ludovician on my tail!

fidorous told eric to conceptualise the water - knowing that when he did the boat would turn into a real boat etc and presumably he would be able to be aboard the boat and help. the fact TF knew that by conceptualising the water strips they would go into the conceptual world means that he has probably done something similar himself which is why i asked (albeit very badly) that fidourous must hold some key/power to be able to venture into a conceptual world whenever he wants and with it he could make anything he wants such as a boat, a plane, a car, a house, a massive harpoon gun with the brush on the end attached to the laptop to kill the ludovician so that they don;t have to bother re-enacting the jaws scene.

the whole mycroft ward thing was very similar to agent smith in the matrix revolutions no? as it was an 'unexposed/omnipresent villain' i just thought it wasn't an 'evil' worth caring about. Sauron in Lord of the rings is similar but then again he is fucking scary cos of all the evil he commands and sends after the characters. i would have cared more had loads of mycrofts started chasing him but...oh wait...no that would be directly copying all the agent smith's in the matrix.

oh there was too much obvious water imagery throughout the whole novel don;t you think?

are there no unanswered questions for you then?






right, im probably going to get lambasted for this here but. were we ever told 100% that scout was clio? or maybe his mental-ness saw clio in scout. or maybe...i dunno.

timlarsson
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 10:05:54 AM

Rank: Luxophage
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 5/7/2009
Posts: 123
Location: Sweden
Well, I didn't really think about all these questions that you wrote down, so I didn't know a definite answer. Also, as the books name suggest, or as the play on pronounciation that the name of the book plays suggest: (rorschach test) Each reader will have his or her own imagination on what happens, who's who and who isn't at all.

Think about this:
What if each time eric is "reborn" he set's out on a quest to trey. first time he meets scout, he tells him about his life, about clio and stuff. eric gets eaten by the ludo.
second time, he doesn't go to meet scout since all his material is gone, (scout maybe has it all). so she sends him his stuff. he goes out on a quest, doesn't make it all the way through.
third time, a little bit more progress, dr. randle get to know about the letters that scout sends to him, and she doesn't want eric to get eaten again and agian.
fourth time, he get's suspicious of scout and she recalls that clio had a smiley on her big toe. so she gets one just to win erics trust.
repeat until 11th time, they've gathered enough information and experience to finally know how to hide from the ludo, with the dictaphones etc.

trey just know that first time eric was eaten, and now eric's back so for him it's the 2nd eric. a lot of what you think are "plot holes" can get answered like that. But that's just MY interpretation.
Taren
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2011 10:59:38 AM
Rank: Fry
Groups: Shoal

Joined: 5/23/2011
Posts: 1
Location: Brazil
chrisps wrote:
how is nobody replying to this?

i think these are genuine questions/topics for debate and much more important to address than some ridiculous gimmicks such as the 'negatives all over the world' or how 'TRST is loosely similar to the word TRUST' - i mean, who cares!

what i care about, what i have scoured the net for - are people willing to question the obvious flaws in the story. It is not because i can't suspend disbelief or because i don't have an imagination but rather I (nor i bet all of you) didn't actually 100% understand what the jimeny cricket went on. why was ian needed? why was the pointless story of mycroft ward/japansese story included? what the daffy, donald and ed the DUCK happened with the strips of paper. whats that? - he had a dream and suddenly he's on a boat! oh right, clear as Daniel Day Lewis - why is nobody talking about these things?!!?!?!?!

30 people have looked at this thread, and none of them have commented. i looked at another question from an equally lost member of the forum and quel supris - no replies. What the hell is up with you guys! all the thousands of people on this forum are more willing to discuss utter BS and discuss intellectual theories that are not even pertinent to the novel....its ridiclodocus. its as if the purposefully confusing story was written in order to pertain to every type of philopshy, conceptual, je ne se quois!


reading this book was like reading R.L. Stine trying to explain the Matrix. discuss. please. por favour. sil vous plait.

All i am saying...is that i paid £7.99 for this flickbook gimmick thing...and i want answers. not discussion about what the chuck norris is on the postcard - if you care about the pictures wait for the film!

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but for me, the intrigue of the book was the puzzle of finding these things out. You have questions. Man, we ALL have questions. Some of yours have been answered here. Some of them may not have answers. Period.


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