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Clio Vs Scout Options
One Who Walks the Earth
Posted: Sunday, June 3, 2007 1:23:11 AM
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Is scout like a Clio reincarnate?

And in this alternate world, what are some differences ettweeb in and the real world?
brain fog
Posted: Sunday, June 3, 2007 5:50:38 AM
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As soon as the tatoo on the toe was mentioned I felt that scout was, in some way, a reresentation of Clio.

On thought i had in reading that maybe the whole book was from Clio's persepective. An escapist fantasy from a terminal brain tumor.

She dreams of the time, after her death, when her distraught boyfriend seeks out the memory of her. The core of the fantasy is that she somehow comes back from death to reunite with Eric and defeat the cancer. The cancer is transformed into the Myrocroft Ward infection.

Well I like that way off looking at the story - but it is somewhat undermined by the newspaper article and postcard at the end. Both of these sort of diminish the ways in which the story can be interprited.

I do wonder if these artifacts were after-thoughts asked for my the editors so that people would have something to hang onto at the end when they found themselves adrift in a sea of ideas and possibilities.

Personally I think the book would be better without them.

[/quote]
One Who Walks the Earth
Posted: Monday, June 4, 2007 1:19:09 AM
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I agree.


It would be weird living in an alternate world, do you think there is only the grrek island of Naxos or a whole other world?

I like the idea of Clios Perspective.
NicholasRidiculous
Posted: Monday, June 4, 2007 7:49:33 AM
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What evidence do we have for Clio's death? Only heresay. Ian can't remember it. Her Mum may think she died when she decided to disappear into unspace.
One Who Walks the Earth
Posted: Monday, June 4, 2007 10:41:59 PM
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Well the book clealy states clio dies.
NicholasRidiculous
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2007 6:12:59 AM
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And you are going to believe what the book is telling you?
Ben Rapp
Posted: Monday, June 18, 2007 5:52:11 PM
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Interesting that this is the only thread that notices Clio's cancer. I like the idea that Scout's inactive Mycroft memetic bomb is Clio's real-world brain tumour (although the book specifies no particular kind of cancer). Was Clio's death suicide, then, as it is implied Eric's real-world death must have been (if, in his case, perhaps inadvertent)? Why do none of the three LB fragments mention the cancer, even by implication - unless the assumption that both Eric and Clio (whom I take to be quite young, as Scout is) are academics or students is wrong? We assume they must be, because how else do you take a month off on a Greek island (and if you can and are working, why stay in a tent?) and because Mr Nobody is possibly a proxy for TFES. If not, then perhaps the Greek trip was a last blast on the post horn before the inevitable, rather than a simple carefree holiday.
kippertoffee
Posted: Friday, June 29, 2007 11:49:09 AM
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Crikey steven, you seem determined to frazzle my brain. I'm supposed to be working this afternoo but there's little chance of that now you've dropped that bomb :D

So if the final chapter are a part of Lightbuld frag 3 then that means....... that means........ AAAAGGHHH!

'half of the memory is dedicated to remembering the future'

thanks for the 'clue' steven.

Pete.
MustBeInvisible
Posted: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:26:51 PM
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One Who Walks the Earth wrote:
Is scout like a Clio reincarnate?

And in this alternate world, what are some differences ettweeb in and the real world?


Well, a bunch of boxes and planks becomes the boat from Jaws for one thing...

I'm unclear about Clio/Scout. They are the same person in some respect, but I don't know what respect that is exactly.
kaseyyy
Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:05:00 PM
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Okay so here is my theory about Scout being Clio. I think that Scout is Scout and that's it. I can't explain the smiley face on the foot or other Clio-like things that Scout did, however, the reason he felt so close to her and like he had known her forever may have been because he met her the first time he went after the shark. Maybe they fell in love the first time that he doesn't remember and so it just felt so natural the second time. I also think that at the end when the boxes turned into a boat that Scout turned into Clio (if only in his mind- but that's all that counts, right?). Everything turned into what it needed to turn into (boxes into a boat, paper into water, etc.) so maybe Scout also turned into Clio? I don't know. Don't get me wrong, I really wanted Scout to be Clio but it just didn't add up. Clio was dead, the book even explains how she died, I'm pretty sure she didn't just come back.
benedict
Posted: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:08:18 PM
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not sure if this has been mentioned already... but it seems like each character may have a corresponding 'negative' character (who never actually appears in the book). for example, scout and clio... ian and gavin... 2nd eric sanderson & 1st eric sanderson... dr. randle and dr. ryan mitchell...etc.

thoughts?
heartbreak
Posted: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:14:49 PM
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benedict wrote:
not sure if this has been mentioned already... but it seems like each character may have a corresponding "negative" character (who never actually appears in the book). for example, scout and clio... ian and gavin... 2nd eric sanderson & 1st eric sanderson... dr. randle and dr. ryan mitchell...etc.

thoughts?


Nice theory, Ben. I hadn't connected the two Dr's like that before.
Parasol
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2007 9:56:40 PM
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Just an idea concerning Clio's cancer. In the second part of the light bulb fragment, on page 120, it says:

Quote:
After a few minutes, she started running her thumbs up along the line of her jaw, up behind her ears and then slowly down her neck in attentive little circles.


She is looking for swollen lymph nodes. And while these are a common symptom for all sorts of diseases, I think that lymphoma would tie in perfectly with the cancer - Mycroft Ward analogy.

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Swollen but painless lymph nodes are the most common sign of Hodgkin's lymphoma, often occurring in the neck.


The lymphatic system is part of the human immune system. Just as the number of lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell) increases when the body fights an infection, Ward constantly assimilates new node bodies to make himself immune against death.

Two defensive mechanisms growing out of control.
benedict
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:27:48 PM
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just a another thought:

clio vs. scout vs. jones?
marsjams13
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:33:36 PM
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Location: up there
benedict wrote:
just a another thought:

clio vs. scout vs. jones?

Yeah, that was my initial impression as well. hmm. . .
kitisconfused
Posted: Friday, October 5, 2007 9:33:12 PM
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Location: Albuquerque
I question whether the story is linear. It could be that The story runs in loops. Clio dies, Eric Finds Scout, They kill the fish, Scout become Clio etc.

Even more probably, I think that the entire story may be a parenthetical. Perhaps they spend time on the island first. Eric, with his fear of scuba-diving finally goes with Clio, and drowns. In the moment of death his life "flashes before his eyes." This is the recount of the raw shark texts as he struggles to reclaim reality and is merely stuck in the ethereal gap between life and death. He finally finds Clio as a real reason to live and reclaims reality... Bingo back on the Island.

The only thing that really throws me off of this particular theory is the chapter written from the first Eric's point of view. When he laments the Underwater camera.

Perhaps he really is inside the dream fish...
Sophieness
Posted: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:51:19 PM
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Grrr, Steven! Why did you make Clio/Scout's tattoo so character-defining when, really, its almost impossible to have? I was discussing Clios character with a tattoo artist/primary school teacher friend (who had also read RST) and she said she loved the book except for one thing - Scout/Clio's tattoo.

Just so everyone knows, you can't get a tattoo on your toe. The skin is something like five times as thick as normal skin. If you really wanted it done, you'd have to burn away a few layers of skin, then apply the ink, then wait for it to heal, and by that time, the ink would have run and you would have scars from the burn and the smiley face would be all mushy.

The search for answers for impossible tattoos begins... :cry: as if there wasn't enough else to worry about!
heartbreak
Posted: Friday, December 21, 2007 3:01:45 PM
Rank: Unspace Science Committee
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Good post, Sophie. I believe it asks a very good question. If I remember right, Clio never actually got the tattoo. Scout has the tattoo that would be impossible to have, so the question is, is Scout real or maybe just a figment of Eric's imagination?
Sophieness
Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:56:32 AM
Rank: Deconstructive Piranha
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
Oh dear oh dear oh dear - thats a very big can of worms to open! Scout not being real?

If you followed that line, then many of the main (Fidorous) and secondary characters would also have to be part of Eric's same hallucination. Like when Eric and Scout plan to leave the hotel - Scout goes to pick up Ian from Aunty Ruth (and it is implied that she is successful) AND when Eric talks to Ruth's husband John.... Pg 170 (Aust edition)

Quote:
'You'll be leaving us tomorrow then?'
I slouched back against the car next to mine. 'Yeah, how did you know?'
'I saw you come back with that girl today.'
I felt myself wince. 'Sorry I should probably have -'
John waved a don't worry about it hand....


Both acknowledge Scout's existence.

I think it would be too illogical, too structurally difficult (even for Steven!) for Scout and Eric not to share the same reality. I like this theory
http://www.rawsharktexts.com/unspace/viewtopic.php?t=188
Perhaps the question of Scout's reality can be explained in the same way?
Anchor
Posted: Thursday, January 3, 2008 9:38:08 AM
Rank: Fry
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
Ladies and Gents and maybes and maybe-nots, this shall be my first, and last (but not actually), post. I believe I have a suitable explaination for the scout-clio kafuffle, and I must admit that reading your posts helped me make this conclusion. If you don't want to read the whole thing, then just read my first point, and if you still don't understand then you'll want to read on.

1. Scout is Clio, no doubt about that. When Eric met Clio for the very first time, she introduced herself to him as Scout.

2.At first, it occured to me that scout seemed too young to be Clio, so I too thought it might have something to do with reincarnation, but that explaination was more of a dismissal of the issue. But I am sure now that Scout is a younger Clio, though not that much younger.

3. Half of what we remember happens in the future. An example of this is given as the first Eric Sanderson, the one who went searching for a way to 'bring back' Clio and subsequently attracted the shark, kept a journal of his memories, and those memories were of events that hadn't occured yet, on an island he hadn't been to yet.

4. At the end of the novel, Eric and Scout are drifting towards the greek island. This is the first time that either of them visit this island, but it is the same island referred to in the Lightbulb Fragments. The time that Eric and Scout spend on the island together after the novel ends becomes a memory, which was written down by Eric Sanderson the first and encoded in the Lightbulb Fragments. He wrote the journal trying to recapture a memory that hadn't happened yet.

5. Clio never had cancer. In the journal entries, she is referring to Mycroft Ward, who Scout refers to as being like a cancer. Clio's memories of being in a hospital, were also Scout's memories of being sent to doctors and specialists after being targeted by Mycroft Ward, and harboring his partial-entity. The First Eric Sanderson wrote in the journal that she was talking about her cancer, but even he admits in his last entry that his memory of what happened wasn't exactly what happened, it was just his version, his interpretation. He probably interpreted it as Cancer, because he wrote the diary before he even knew anything about Mycroft Ward.

6. The tatoo on Scout's toe was not a permanent tatoo. In the Lightbulb Fragments, it is mentioned that Clio wants to have a tatoo of a smiley face on her toe, but as was discussed previously in this forum, it is impossible for her to have that wish fulfilled.

Now I'm sure I've missed a few things, as I can't remember everything at the moment, but point out the flaws in my argument, and let's try and figure this out together.
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